Okay Scholars, here's the topic for your second Heart of Darkness post:
Heart of Darkness seems to blur the line between the so-called “advanced” society of Europe and the “primitive” society of Africa. What makes one culture “civilized” and another “savage” in the eyes of the world? Are these distinctions valid? Do you think that the culture you live in is “advanced” or “civilized”? Why?
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This is a loaded question. There are so many different interpretations of "civilized" and "primitive" (I think we already established that in class) because there are so many different cultures and therefore, so many different perspectives. Because of this, I believe that most would say that aboriginal cultures are most primitive because they haven't embraced or really been influenced by the "Western" culture. I have always believed the "Western" culture to be quite civilized because, well, that is what I basically learned. In the past, because the "Western" culture was more civilized than others, the Western countries were able to expand and colonize; the other cultures just didn't have the means, the infrastructure or the civility (used in terms of archaic definition) to resist the advances of the Western countries. So, from what I learned in history, I decided that the "Western" culture was the embodiment of civilization.
Despite this, I am sure that those peoples and cultures destroyed by Western countries would remark otherwise, asserting that a civilized peoples would not so barbarically destroy others. This can even be reflected in the fact that some countries, like the US, still employ the death penalty.
What everyone must realize in order to answer this question is the fact that every civilization lives up to a different standard of living, including morals and beliefs. This means that civilized and savage truly come at an opinionated stance. What we view as savage is civilized to them and perhaps in their point of view we are the savages digesting processed meats as we take everything for granted. However, the terms advanced and primitive can be taken differently; if you take it how i just dicussed then again its opinioated, but if you look at it as technologically, then of course we are more advanced, but it doesnt make us any better nor them primitive. So it is not valid to judge a civilization by titling it with a term like savage or primitive simply because you beleive your to be better.
What determines a civilized race opposed to a primitive race in modern terms would be judged by technology. Technology can be deemed as essentially a "luxury." Countries must first take care of their necessities (ie food, shelter, etc.) before they can indulge in such luxuries. Therefore, the more successful the race is, the less they worry about meeting their necessities and can use their time letting minds wonder superfluous thoughts such as philosophy and plumbing which only the affluent can afford.
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I totally understand Erik though. The most obvious distinction between savagery and civilized is not so obvious - it's quite subjective. Using shoes in homes is very rude to Asians while it is simply common with Anglo-Saxons. Friday night steak is a total crime for Hindu nations. Clothes and shoes are of no need to the Mek and their penis gourds. This is so subjective that it is considered very judgemental to even use the words "civilized" or "savage" because its used to compare to one's own culture.
For those who took world history with me, what makes a civilization: people, location, government, economy, and some other stuff I forget. That's pretty much it; the basis of a civilization is really simple. However, in the eyes of the world there are certain extra characteristics that make a difference between a civilized group and a primitive one. As discussed in class, groups that are "different" than other groups are seen as the savages. In the novel for example, the Europeans are clearly superior over teh savage Aftricans(from Marlow's observations)
I think, like what Marcie said, that Western culture has been accepted in the world as a civilized group. Third world countries tend to be the "savage" groups.Therefore, I would have to say that our country would be considered the more civil group because of our western culture and dominace over the world. Our great influence within other countries show that many depend on us. There is a link between a culture's power and their definition of the word civilized.
Well, everyone here seems to agree that defining a "civilized" society is difficult because it is so subjective. I definitely agree with Trinity that the more advanced technology a society has, generally the more "civilized" they are believed to be. Technology has advanced the way humans from all around the world live, leaving those who have not embraced it, whether due to the lack of money or simply culture, in the category of "primitive" because they still rely on the mere basics to survive.
In the eyes of the world, the thing that usually makes a culture "civilized" is its organazation. Once a culture organizes itself, it is able to produce more, think cohesively, and dominate that which it chooses to dominate. Thus, the "savage" cultures are those that are overrun by the "civilized" ones. Simply put, the distinct characteristic between the two is power vs no power. I think in these terms, yes, the distinctions are valid.
The culture I l;iv ein is definately "advanced," as far as organization, technology, and education are concerned; but whether or not it is "civilized" is another matter, becuase the organization of my culture is not effective in doing what needs to be done.
[Disclaimer: this is more of a rant full of mush that is leaking out of my sleep-deprived brain than a quality post so feel free to skip it.]
Despite the fact that each individual's response to this question is completely due to their own perceptions, I know what my own personal biases are, in that I think of the word "advanced" in respect to technology or technological development and "civilized" as the level of restrictions put on the people who are a part of each individual society. No matter how opinionated I may sound, I do think that the more developed the technology of a society is, the more advanced they are. Likewise for the statement I mentioned about being "civilized." For an example we could look at people around the time of Heart of Darkness, at least, the Europeans. They have all sorts of sophisticated rules that govern their behavior, and that makes them civilized in that they have to live their lives within a certain mold. Granted there are societies in less "advanced" countries that also have strict customs, but what sets the Europeans apart from the rest is the fact that some of their customs are fairly superficial at times. For the less developed societies in Africa, their customs and restrictions are based on their beliefs while the Europeans follow their customs because they think that they have to. Seeing as I am not going to go back to reread this I will bet that it does not make sense and I apologize but I am in a rush.
To me the United States sits in the middle ground in terms of both adjectives (advanced and civilized). There are places where people do not have access to higher levels or technology and there are those who have access to THE highest levels of technology as well as people who are very considerate of others and those who are rude scumbags. In any case because of this I feel that America is in a balanced state.
A civilized culture in my eyes is one that knows what to do with itself without destroying what has been built. This is mainly dealing with relationships. For instance, a great tower for worshiping is built in one culture's area and another decides to expand its territory. The "civil" thing to do in this process would be to compensate the people instead of demolishing them along with their great tower, even though it was built for other beliefs than their own. Civilized cultures can grow, but at the same time plant seeds rather than burn trees in a world that is older than themselves.
Advanced, I agree, would have to do with technology. Being civilized is a different category.
I think that the US is civilized and advance, but I also believe that Japan and South Korea are. All have beautiful cultures full of meaning and tradition. They also have come a long way from where they began in technology and remain in the top tier for much of it. They are civilized because they have learned to respect other cultures as well as find it within their own cultures.
Although America as a whole is a rich and wealthy society, with advantages such as technology and educations for our children, a strong government, and a stable economy, can we truly say that we are civilized? In the past we have almost obliterated countries with weapons of mass destruction, we have gone in to other countries and intruded and destroyed. Does this sound like a truly civilized soceity?
Though i do completely understand other people's thinking, in that in our eyes we can be considered civilized in comparison to other countries. But, i dont believe that America is a society of truly civilized people. I've watched national geographic, and there are certain tribes who are completely peaceful, though they may live in houses made of earthly materials and wear minimal clothing, they have morals and high standards of conduct amoung the tribe members. So although in our eyes they may seem savage because of their life style, if we look deeper, can we truly say that we are more civilized or in other words, better than they?
So it seems that everyone has come to agree that technology, power, and culture are all signs of a civilized society. I do somewhat agree with these thoughts in that, we have many advantages such as knowledge and access to resource over those from more "primative" countries. But i'm sure that they know far more about the land, animals, plants than any one of us do. So it you think about it we can't necessarily say that we're smarter, but rather we have knowledge in different areas. If i had the chance to go visit a more "primal" society, i'd jump at the chance. I know this is getting a little off topic, but i think those people have found what's really important in life, while we in America(and other "civilized" societies) have things of superficiality.
Civilization is in the eye of the beholder.
The more technologically advanced a civilization is the less "civilized" the less technological become. Things like hygiene, electricity, and clothing are all symbols of being "civilized". I
I believe the true example of civilization is the way other humans are treated and handled, among your own communities and others.
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I agree with Marcie in that the western culture has been the "standard" of civilization, however i do believe that the death penalty should be implemented. Used both as a threat and warning to reduce crime as well as to enforce the law and that some people just deserve and would better society if they were dead...
no?
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